FOREST AWAY: Fenerbahce, Europa League Play-Off First Leg, Thursday 19th February – Fan Guide

Another mad old week in the modern history of Nottingham Forest. These European away guides are pretty big on the word count already so I’ll try not to get too lost in what has unfolded, but I do feel some relief the Dyche tenure has been brought to a swift conclusion. I was tired of the argument that his tenure had moved us out of the relegation zone, the odd stat that supported him being able to continue in the role, and that we couldn’t possibly stomach another managerial change. What I judged it on was what I heard with my own ears, and what I saw with my own eyes. Something that seems to be overlooked in the new age of social media analysts and an abundance of stats that can be manipulated to show anything you like.

In his desperation as the end neared, the win at Liverpool in November became something to cling to recently I noticed. Dyche referred to the time someone apparently told him the win over a shocking Spurs side in December was the best Premier League performance Forest had ever produced. I mean, that’s bollocks, but I definitely don’t want to be hearing about these things after a poor showing at Leeds and when his side couldn’t find a way to break down the worst team in the division.

Dyche is the tradesman round your house who likes to take an intake of breath and put your focus on what a pickle you are in without him; the dodgy car salesman who guides your eyes to the lovely back bumper and not the engine having been replaced by a squirrel on a treadmill. Occasionally he found the right words, usually after a victory, but a lot of the time I sat listening to him grimacing.

And my eyes, oh my poor eyes. I couldn’t bear a lot of it. It wasn’t just ineffective football; it was hopeless for much of the time. I don’t dispute there was a few really good moments but every time we looked like getting somewhere we would regress soon enough. Even watching some very bad Forest sides since the nineties, I don’t think I ever felt quite as frequently as I did in the last few months that we didn’t really have a chance. At Leeds, there was a moment where we lost possession in the opposition half and our entire team just turned and ran back to camp out on the edge of our own box. Leeds just ambled forward, picked their passes and engineered an attack.

On other occasions, I did see bits I could get on board with. Like how we took the fight to Brentford a few weeks back and didn’t let them get out of their half. But as I said in a previous guide, I often got the feeling we had a game plan and if the opposition didn’t fall into line we didn’t really have much else to offer.

The appointment of Dyche, Stone and Woan was heralded only a few months ago. Their part in our history was readily shovelled down our throats. Our global search for a new manager concluded with us giving the job to the guy who lived down the road. What a lovely set of circumstances. I do hope anyone involved in championing or executing this appointment is being looked at and scrutinised, because we needed to get this right, and we failed. Again.

Remember this was the guy who we were told was a man who was aligned to the club’s own principles and philosophies. Christ alive, I’d be more worried if I didn’t know better that this was a nice sounding line which was actually meaningless, and just intended to distance the club from the previous shoddy appointment a few weeks earlier. In the circumstances that has led to the shambolic lurch to four different permanent managers, Dyche and co can surely point to some torrid circumstances in mitigation. No-one is going to succeed in such an environment, but we have seen the likes of Steve Cooper and Nuno somehow find a method within the madness. Sadly for Dyche, too many felt he wasn’t capable of doing so and the patience of supporters is all but exhausted. My hope is that in Vitor Pereira we have a shrewder, less noisy appointment. I wish him well.

The remaining weeks of the campaign are huge. We somehow need to muster enough points to keep us above the dreaded ‘R’ line, but there is also judgement on the decision makers with how this all plays out. As much as we might point our fingers at Dyche or Postecoglou, their culpability only goes so far. There are far bigger problems at the root of this dreadful season, and we simply must have our eyes open to that. That doesn’t mean pitchforks and protest, but I do think some culpability and some humility is required; I think we are owed that. Just like I think there has been enough good happen at the club in recent times to also put the focus on the fans to do what we can to lift the club up off the floor once more.

Yes… okay. I got distracted when I said I wouldn’t. Anyway, Istanbul!

***

I have again done my very best to pull together a robust and detailed guide. I had some really nice comments again in person out in Braga which I am always grateful for, and I’m please to hear that these guides are of benefit to some of you.

Fenerbahçe promises to be a very different trip to what has come before. Their stadium being in the Asian side of the city means those of us following the Reds out there are going to be treading some new ground. Only once before, as far as I can tell, have Forest played a competitive game outside of Europe; that was the Intercontinental Cup in 1981 which took place in Tokyo.

I am again grateful to PC Simon Travell of Nottinghamshire Police who regularly keeps me updated and provides information and photos, some of which are featured. In this issue, I am also grateful to Aston Villa fan Dave Bytheway who has contributed to a Q&A included at the end, speaking of his own experiences at Fenerbahçe following Villa in January.

Let us begin…

 

AWAY DAY NO.20 – Fenerbahçe, Thursday 19^th February, Europa League Play-Off, First Leg, 8:45pm KO (5.45pm GMT)

~ While certainly not acting in any official role I’ve agreed to be the nominated fan representative in the UEFA information documents that Nottinghamshire Police submitted back in the summer. This doesn’t have any specific role attached to it but I’ve been trying to help fellow fans as much as I can across our four games so far, and this will continue in Istanbul. The co-operation between club, Nottinghamshire Police and ourselves has been very welcome so far and has hopefully made things easier for those travelling. Should there be any items not covered in this guide that you want to find out please let me know. I’d suggest the best option is to e-mail us at [email protected] or DM us on social media, preferably Twitter / X should you need to.

~ It is a requirement to have at least 150 days remaining on your passport when entering Turkey. Passport control also require a fully blank page to stamp

~ Travel insurance – don’t forget to sort this; I’m not an expert in it but you can shop around a little and can also look at getting cover which lasts over a certain period which can then cover the further games. I’ve paid around £21 for cover that lasts me an entire year. For a single game you can source insurance for only a few quid.

~ We’ve experienced a fair bit of variable weather so far on our travels. Last time out, we all got soaked in Braga, and it does looks like we should expect more rain in Istanbul based on the current forecast. It could well be a little warmer than the UK but not by much, and we will have to remember our extended wait in the ground on Thursday night where it could get pretty cool.

~ Unlike our other trips so far, the Euro is not the main currency in Istanbul. I believe many places will accept it but the main currency is the Turkish Lira. As a major city, contactless and card payments are still widely accepted but if you are taking cash then Turkish Lira will be the better option. For guidance £100 is around 6,000 Turkish Lira (TRY). I do not recommend taking cash to the stadium, there was some suggestions from Villa fans on their recent visit in the group stage that it was confiscated and I understand the food & drink kiosks will take contactless payments.

~ Wednesday 18^th February marks the start of Ramadan. I have seen first-hand how Forest fans have universally respected our hosts and local cultures so far in Europe this season but it is certainly worth being extra mindful of this. I do not believe this will have a significant impact on our visit as Istanbul will always be attracting international visitors but, as NFFC have already communicated, there are specific requests for Forest supporters to abide by rules around eating and drinking in Sultanahmet Square when boarding the buses to the stadium. I think there is some sense needed for other times too when outside, and especially in and around areas of religious interest.

~ Flags will be welcome inside the stadium but must be approved by Fenerbahçe prior to travelling. The deadline for submission has now expired so please do not take a flag to the stadium without the required approval. I have been informed by Nottinghamshire Police that this policy, while unfortunate, is due to previous incidents elsewhere of offensive and politically motivated flags. According to Forest, if you applied to take your flag prior to the deadline on Thursday 12^th February and hear nothing further back, this will mean the flag is approved, but I suggest having some form of evidence that the request was made in order to avoid any uncertainty at the turnstiles.

 Getting to Istanbul

I would imagine the majority of Forest supporters will fly into Istanbul Airport (European side) or Sabiha Gökçen International Airport (SAW) which is on the Asian side of the city.

Don’t be concerned if you are flying into SAW; it is 28 miles from there to the centre of Istanbul. Istanbul airport is 27 miles. Both will likely take between 1-1.5hrs by road. For some guidance our hotel offered us a dedicated taxi service from either airport that was €50 from Istanbul Airport and €65 from Istanbul SAW. This is perhaps slightly more expensive than booking a normal taxi but should offer a decent comparison.

There is also an extensive metro / underground system across Istanbul that connects to both airports. The M11 route runs from Istanbul Airport and it appears at least one change will be required onto the M2 line presuming you are staying somewhere in the approximate vicinity of Sultanahmet where the fan meeting point is on matchday. If trying to reach here a further change onto the T1 tram line may be necessary which will involve a short walk to the tram stop. This entire journey will take around 1hr 15mins.

From Istanbul SAW, the M4 metro line will involve a change onto the overground rail line (Line B1) at Ayrilik Çeşmesi. This will take a similar amount of time to reach Sultanahmet as the above scenario from Istanbul Airport at around 1hr 15 mins.

I’ve included the link to a route planner here which can help if you are looking to use public transport from either airport:

Turkey Journey Planner / Transit Map – NAVITIME Transit

It isn’t easy to find specific price information on the above journeys, especially as they include travel on a couple of different types of public transport, but various sources online suggest a single journey on a metro or tram costs 27 Turkish Lira. You can also purchase a travel pass for multiple days which could be worthwhile if planning to move around the city sightseeing or to and from your accommodation, and avoids you having to keep buying individual tickets.

Collecting Match Tickets

Collection of tickets will be from the Radisson Hotel at Sultanahmet from 3pm to 8pm on Wednesday and 9am to 2pm on Thursday. All collection services have been very well managed to date, and the Forest staff and stewards in attendance have been incredibly helpful to direct fans in and out.

As usual, passports will be needed to acquire your ticket and there will be a strict policy of only being able to collect your own ticket.

As the buses begin to depart soon after collection closes, it is recommended to not leave it too late to collect tickets.

Passports will apparently also be checked when embarking onto the buses at Sultanahmet Square and again at the stadium. The feedback from numerous Villa fans was that a passport was not a requirement for them (and their tickets were issued in advance) but they were advised to take a form of photo I.D.  However, despite the inconsistency, it is not worth the risk to ignore this request.

EDIT: I have been advised by NFFC that the requirement for passports to be kept on our person comes from the British Consulate. I fear this advice may overlook the specific risk of passports being lost, and I’m unsure why the approach of clubs differs on this, but I’m grateful for the additional information being provided.

 

Şükrü Saracoğlu Stadium – About the Stadium and How to Get There

The Fenerbahçe stadium, opened in 1908, has historical significance as it hosted the first association football matches in Turkey when the opening games of the Istanbul Football league took place there in the same year. The current name of the stadium was adopted in 1998 in honour of the former club chairman and Turkish prime minister, Şükrü Saracoğlu. I believe it now has some sponsorship bolted onto the name.

The stadium has been visited by British clubs previously – Manchester United and Glasgow Rangers have both played there in recent years – and Aston Villa played a group phase fixture there only last month. The stadium is perhaps most synonymous in our country, however, for the antics of Graeme Souness after the two-legged Turkish Cup Final in 1996 when, as manager of Galatasaray, he planted a Galatasaray flag in the centre circle at the end of the game that was won by the visitors. It caused outrage from the home supporters but remains an iconic moment in the history of Galatasaray.

Forest supporters will reach the stadium on board the coaches from Sultanahmet Square and are instructed to arrive no later than 3pm. Coaches will begin to arrive from 2pm; I’m unsure if they will begin to board immediately but be wary that if these do start to fill up and leave immediately you are prolonging an already long wait at the stadium ahead of kick-off.

It is anticipated that the journey will take around one hour, and based on information shared by Aston Villa fans, the final buses departed sometime after 4pm.

I have enquired about the justification around the long wait time inside the stadium, expecting to be informed it was for our safety, but was simply told that it was predominantly due to the traffic. A note of credit for Evangelos Marinakis and NFFC for covering the costs of the coaches which the costs of (unfairly in my option) are passed to the visiting club. I’m unsure how the pricing works as the Villa fans paid only slightly more than us without the costs being covered by their own club but the £53,500 quoted by NFFC seems an awful lot of money to charge us!

As of Friday, we had only sold around 1,200 tickets of the full allocation of 2,337. This may have increased since but it seems unlikely we will fill the away end for this one. I know the relatively quick turnaround from the group stage and the onerous restrictions on matchday have put some off, plus this is a longer journey than we have experienced for far in the Europa League. I do really hope that the efforts fans are going to will have a reward come Thursday evening.

There are also strict protocols around accessing the stadium, with a couple of security checks, including the apparent passport check, to be anticipated after disembarking the coaches. It is suggested that fans aim to only take phone and a form of contactless payment with them into the ground, plus their passport. Other items are unlikely to be admitted. The ban on phone battery chargers feels particularly harsh given how long we are expected to wait in the ground, so make sure your phones are fully charged and conserve the battery best you can.

Forest have also published a list of food & drink available within the ground in their matchday guide. Villa fans warned of very big queues that built up but hopefully these will calm over time. As I’m sure you are already aware, there will be no alcohol available in the stadium.

We will be split across two tiers in the corner of one the stands behind the goal. I understand that the common areas / concourses behind the stand are shared so fans in different tiers will be together during the periods before and after the game and won’t be split up. Due to the smaller following, I think it is possible seats may eventually become unreserved and fans housed into a smaller area, but this is only speculation on my part.

As we have become accustomed to, views will be restricted by enclosure fencing. From some of the photos I’ve seen, this appears to be more railed fencing than the Perspex screens we experienced at Graz / Utrecht which could hinder the views further.

After the match, we should expect a considerable hold back of anything up to two hours.

There is some further information below in the Villa Q&A which shares some of their experiences on matchday.

PUBS & BARS

Around Sultanahmet Square appears to be a good shout to find various bars and restaurants that will accommodate Forest supporters. Ticarethane SK street is noted by Forest in the official fan guide, and I had received similar information from Nottinghamshire Police during their visit to Istanbul a couple of weeks ago. It was advised that a lot of places are restaurants but these should also welcome fans for drinks.

One specific recommendation I did see recently was the Shadow which refers to itself as a ‘fun pub’ to the east of Sultanahmet Square. They are publicising that they are hoping Forest fans will visit their bar / restaurant. I believe they did similar with Villa a few weeks back.

A couple of other places I’ve looked at are Harab’be Café, Rounders Irish Bar and the Sultan Pub & Café. All these options are in the vicinity of Sultanahmet Square, and I’m sure you’ll have no issues finding of plenty of other good venues.

I’ve purposely only recommended places in the one area, partially due to a lack of information about places further afield but I am also conscious of places where Fenercahçe supporters may be based. I did read that the area around Taksim Square to the north was often frequented by home supporters but I don’t know how accurate this is. However, due to the early departure on the buses I expect most will want to stick close to the fan meeting point on matchday.

 

Q&A with Aston Villa fan, Dave

Dave travelled with Villa in January to Fenerbahçe, and has been kind enough to answer some questions for us…

 

Just generally, how did you find Istanbul as a city to visit? Was it welcoming and did Villa fans enjoy their trip?

An excellent place to visit, steeped in immense history. So many things to see and it was the kind of place where sitting in a bar all day would have seemed a waste.

Villa fans were treated very well and had a great few days

 

Are there any specific areas of the city Villa fans congregated or any particular places you would recommend for drinks / food?

Around Sultanahmet Square seemed the most popular. There are some amazing bars and restaurants to choose from.

Did places across Istanbul accept phone / contactless payments did you find? Is there any need to take some Turkish lira?

Everywhere took card, you can take cash for small purchases but we found card payments to be fine

 

As Villa fans experienced, we are being asked to meet Sultanahmet Square on the afternoon of the game. What was the process like for Villa fans meeting here and boarding the buses? Was it compulsory for Villa fans to board these coaches?

Yes, it was mandatory. There is a little bar on the corner of the square a few of us stayed in until boarding time.

The process was as relaxed as it could have been, high armed police presence but all very friendly

 

How long was the journey to the ground and was it straightforward getting into the ground from there?

Around an hour, and once off the coaches it took another 30 minutes or so to get in the ground. Home fans were kept well away from the entrance.

There are some strict rules around taking items into the ground and I heard that some Villa supporters experienced difficulties with this. Forest fans have been advised we should only take passports, payment card and tickets to the game. Can you advise how it worked on your visit?

We weren’t advised to take passports as ours were e-tickets. The searches on the way in also included taking off your shoes.

 

Was there any way of leaving items on the bus like battery bank chargers etc and be able to return to the same bus afterwards?  

You can take the chance, but finding the same bus on the return is next to impossible

 

On the subject of passports, were you told to take them to the ground and were they checked upon boarding the buses / entering the ground?

We weren’t advised to take passports, just photo ID such as a driving licence, but that’s compulsory all over Turkey

What was the experience in the ground like during the long wait for kick-off? Was it an okay wait at the food kiosks?

Huge queues for refreshments, and limited choices. No alcohol in the stadium at all.

The three hours plus prior to kick off went pretty quickly, every time the Villa fans started to chant the PA system was turned up to full which added to the amusement.

 

And what about stadium / away section itself? How did you find it? Was it a noisy home support?

Nothing as intimidating as it was at Legia Warsaw, now THAT was an experience.

The section is very basic; the toilets are just hole in the floor so only use those as a last resort.

How long did the police keep you in the ground after the game?

We were held back around two hours

 

Any other issues generally or getting back to the Sultanahmet Square afterwards?

None at all, the coaches were ready and were escorted by the police to the same point we were collected.

Have a great trip

 

Thanks to Dave for sharing some of his insights.

If you are travelling to Istanbul, see you there.

You Reds

Matt